Italy vs Google
I'm starting to notice a pattern here:
- Google executives are on trial because some sorry excuses for human beings picked on a retarded person and posted the video to youtube: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8115572.stm - this one is simply preposterous. Going after the execs of a company who did nothing to aid, abet, condone or in any way facilitate the abuse in question is absurd, and if extended to other industries would mean that you could pretty much attack any company whose products happened to figure in a crime somehow. Kitchen knives, hunting rifles, golf clubs, even automobiles would seem fair game.
- Italy is going after "user generated content" sites like Youtube and wants to force them to register with the government if they wish to operate: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/02/italy-preparing-to-hold-youtube-others-liable-for-uploads.ars
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And last but not least, this hit piece in the normally respectable Corriere della Sera: http://www.corriere.it/economia/10_gennaio_28/mucchetti_4de4be8a-0be8-11df-bc70-00144f02aabe.shtml
- it's in Italian, but the gist of it is that Mr Mucchetti really has it in for Google because they operate out of Ireland in the EU, whereas he believes they should be registered in Italy as a publisher, and subject to Italy's myriad rules, regulations, and, of course, taxes regarding publishing. Despite, well, not really publishing much of anything themselves. He mentions "tax evasion" charges that had been considered, because the Italian division of Google is not where the adsense revenue in Europe goes. I suppose he figures that since the ads are bought by residents of Italy, the money should somehow stay in Italy? He also huffs and puffs about Italy's antitrust laws, which, in the same piece, he admits were created with the express purpose of not touching existing companies (the market share limit was set higher than the share of the largest existing company). Perhaps he would do well to reflect on political schemes and carve-ups like that and think about why companies like Google go to Ireland, rather than Italy. He also makes some quick mentions of network neutrality, and rambles on a bit about how it's a battle between the "Obamanian, Californian, search engines" versus the telecommunications industry, in "the rest of the world and above all in Europe". And of course he uses a liberal sprinking of keywords like "globalization", "multinational corporations", and "deregulated" to attempt to paint Google in terms of being a big, evil company throwing its weight around. One wonders if there aren't more pressing problems with the Italian media industry, such as the prime minister owning a large chunk of it?
One way of seeing things is that politicians and businessmen in Italy noticed Google was actually making quite a bit of money, and even if they don't quite understand this internet thing, they want some of the loot.
And while Google certainly is becoming big enough to be cause for worry and discussion, the moves against them in Italy do not seem anything like a rational response calculated to offset severe failures in the market.
In any case, it will be interesting to see what happens. Maybe, after China, we'll see Google quit Italy as well?
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This post was mentioned on Twitter by planetapache: David N. Welton: Italy vs Google http://bit.ly/ca6Dkt
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My poor poor country: http://journal.dedasys.com/2010/02/03/italy-vs-google
about 2 hours later:
as italian I would like to say that the subject of these actions is not Italy itself!!! if THEY act this way it doesn't mean all italians think the same..I really hope Google wins this battle, not against italian people, but against italian policy makers, and, in this case, against Berlusconi.
about 2 hours later:
belze, certainly! The title refers, of course, to Italy in the sense of the Italian government. None of my friends in Padova supports this nonsense.
about 2 hours later:
Honestly, I don't fully understand why companies don't just quit all countries other than one, and have no presence in those other countries other than bandwidth. Worst case, a country can choose to cut someone's site off at the border.
about 4 hours later:
Berlusconi controls private TV as well as state TV, so if he can make Internet TV illegal in Italy, or too dangerous, no Italian will ever see anything he doesn't want them to see.
Google cannot accept Berlusconi's terms (where Google is required to pre-censor every post). If the Italian government insists on those terms, Google should just block Italian users from Youtube so they won't be subject to Italian law.
about 10 hours later:
David, it's really sad that you're so completely right and I have to agree with you (I'm from Italy). The root of this weird situation (in my opinion) is that politicians are businessmen and are allowed to compete on the market and to protect themselves with laws at the same time.
about 17 hours later:
The italian article you linked is bullshit (nothing against you).
They post that because they naturally want to see google die. If we were on Reddit, I would call them troll. Anyway, by reading the comments there I can see the majority of people is against what the editor is saying.
Personally, I'm tired of all this italian mafia (where I live) and I hope to move out soon.
about 22 hours later:
@Oscar - it really is bad, isn't it? I don't know if it's the Corriere's official position, or just that one guy, who apparently hates Google, but it's really a rotten article.
about 24 hours later:
It seems like Italy is the only country not being biased on which content providers they hold reliable for user contributions. Everyone seemed to agree that The Piratebay should be shut down. Of course the many millions put into lobbying against The Piratebay is way more than a retarded person being rediculed on Youtube can afford.
So if I got this spun in the right direction, what Italy does is a sympathetic thing.. uhm.. I'm not serious, but I do think it's fair that Google has to abide by Italian law if they publish content to Italy. It's not fair that uploaders need to know the law of every country Google sell the service to.
The only other solution is censorship at the ISP level and I don't like that. Companies are the ones who should filter content based on the viewers.
The best solution is to not censor anything, but we do not appear to be moving in that direction (slighty sarcastic?).
1 day later:
Laws are laws, and if Google breaks laws there should be a punishment.
I'm not saying that google evade taxes, but maybe that's the case and it's up to italian justice to decide what to do.
The justice in italy is one of the last things free from the political control and discussion like this one only make the whole point of justice useless.
1 day later:
@ga - no one is punished for much of anything, in Italy, from Berlusconi on down to the people who don't stop at the crosswalks as they drive past while talking on their cell phones.
Naturally, Google should obey the laws, but Mr. Mucchetti's shrill protests seem more along the lines of "we should find a law we can use to bash them over the head with", rather than a genuine concern for the rule of law. Much of his argumentation is suspect, from calling Google a "publisher", to complaining about Ireland's friendlier business climate.
1 day later:
Google's punishment cases seems to be associated with security problems or some legislation directed against web monopolies.. It won't surprise if Google tries to influence on some political or civil rights cases in the nearest future.
2 days later:
As a comment to the third link you posted, I can say that the opinion that google is evading tax (I don't know exactly was is stated in the article, since I don't read italian), this goes for many countries.
The problem is not only that most of the money is moved to Ireland (nothing is actually sold in Italy, Google IT is selling on behalf of Google IR), but the money is actually moved offshore from Ireland as well (Ireland has, compared to the rest of Europe, very low taxes).
I think the basic thought is, that if you operate in a country, and thereby make use of the infrastructure, educational system, etc. etc., then you should also pay tax for it. Sounds about right, doesn't it?
2 days later:
@xyz : Google doesn't actually 'operate' much in a place like Italy, though, which is part of the point. And why would they with some of these crazy things that are being thrown at them?
I'm all for following the rules of a country, but they should be clear and impartial, not the mish-mash of ugly regulations that Italy has. Many of them serve only to protect incumbent businesses, rather than to actually protect consumers.
5 days later:
What the Italian government should have done was to tell Google to remove the video and give them the identity of the uploader, so that they could prosecute the real offender.